Brokenhearts
Rank 15 (On Angie's Level)
Beware, all ye who talk 2 me
Posts: 4,934
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Guns
Dec 21, 2006 16:56:03 GMT -5
Post by Brokenhearts on Dec 21, 2006 16:56:03 GMT -5
now tht i didnt no (this is wat i mean by ppl nt givin me full fact- mi arguements have holes in it coz it!!!!!). personallly, i do, and i think leagalising guns will make gang/gun culture worse. bt the only way we'll find out, is if tht happens, and i dnt wanna risk it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Guns
Dec 21, 2006 17:02:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2006 17:02:35 GMT -5
guns ARE legal broky. You just are not allowed to carry in britain. Your weapon must be locked in an approved gun case in a secure location your home and you can be asked to submit to a check to make sure that you are enforcing this.
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Guns
Dec 22, 2006 10:58:43 GMT -5
Post by Gil Alexander on Dec 22, 2006 10:58:43 GMT -5
Interesting, but I think the question is whether they should be legal; not if they are or not.
And there is always a point in making things illegal. It stops some people from having them; it cuts back down on the number of people that have them. That much you have to admit.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Guns
Dec 22, 2006 11:15:04 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2006 11:15:04 GMT -5
I will admit that making guns illegal will cut down on the number of people that carry them, but the majority of people who do own and carry do not use their guns. If the police come across a bunch of people shooting at each other, they will intervene, whether guns are legal or illegal. When the stance on guns was altered in Britina, following the shootings in Dunblane, people were called to bring all their guns to be melted down. However, the police had no way of checking that everyone did bring their guns down so many guns were still in circulation. and they can still be purchased in britain, through legal and illegal means...
But yeah. I don't want guns made illegal. It would clamp down on one of my favourite sports and I can see no visible effects that it would have on scottish gun culture. The guns are illegal as it is. I enjoy shooting and would like to continue
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Guns
Dec 22, 2006 14:34:17 GMT -5
Post by Denithar on Dec 22, 2006 14:34:17 GMT -5
I still say that regardless of the fact that making guns illegal would cut down on the amount in circulation, if a civilian wishes to have that protection then it is not the governments place to limit their freedom. Because it is not possible for the government to come anywhere close to eliminating guns from the populace, I believe the common man or woman has the right to own a gun. I'm not even going to argue for the hunting/sporting rights part, but that also plays a role in my opinion.
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Guns
Dec 22, 2006 15:12:47 GMT -5
Post by Gil Alexander on Dec 22, 2006 15:12:47 GMT -5
And I still say that it will cause more danger and damage than it will cause protection. In 2003, there were over 30,000 gun deaths in America, over half of them suicide, and over 700 of them unintentional. I wonder how many lives could have been saved if guns were outlawed (I know not nearly all of them, but some of them, at least.) As it is, we really need to keep guns as illegal as possible, and guns just kept at home don't make it any safer, because kids can get into them. The rate of gun deaths of kids under 15 is nearly 12 times higher in the US than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. About 764,000 Americans have used firearms to defend themselves from criminals each year. That is a great number, but I don't think it's worth it to lose so many lives each year because of it. A VAST majority of those 764,000 ciminals probably weren't going to murder anyway. www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm www.justfacts.com/gun_control.htmwww.neahin.org/programs/schoolsafety/gunsafety/statistics.htm
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Guns
Dec 22, 2006 16:53:46 GMT -5
Post by Denithar on Dec 22, 2006 16:53:46 GMT -5
What are these 25 countries?
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Guns
Dec 22, 2006 17:15:35 GMT -5
Post by Gil Alexander on Dec 22, 2006 17:15:35 GMT -5
I looked for a while and couldn't find the exact 25 countries, but I did find a table:
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Guns
Dec 23, 2006 15:57:58 GMT -5
Post by Denithar on Dec 23, 2006 15:57:58 GMT -5
Sad as the unintentional deaths with guns are, the freedom to defend ourselves and not be nannied by the government, is more important. Europe is giving up far more rights than I hope America ever does. After 9/11, Muslim men in many countries of Europe went around celebrating and bullying people. And the people in countries like Britain and France and Germany just cowered. If the Muslims in American had tried to bully people, some hunter would have blown out their brains. And I would have applauded. And there lies our fundamental difference. You believe in turning the other cheek for evil men. Whether that's wrong or not, I do not follow that biblical verse.
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Brokenhearts
Rank 15 (On Angie's Level)
Beware, all ye who talk 2 me
Posts: 4,934
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Guns
Dec 23, 2006 16:06:31 GMT -5
Post by Brokenhearts on Dec 23, 2006 16:06:31 GMT -5
After 9/11, Muslim men in many countries of Europe went around celebrating and bullying people. den, tht is complete bullshit. tht's about as tru as wen they showd ppl partying jst b4 the attacks, tht was actually a person's wedding. muslims did NOT do tht, and the few tht shud nt have been killd. tought a lesson, put under police custerdy mayb, bt nt killd. wat happend 2 ur christian views? the sanctity of life? rite nw i have nothin more 2 say 2 u, im boiling here, bt i was livin in uearope @ the time of the attacks, and believe u me, i heard nothin of tht, and witnessd nothin of the sort wen i went 2 central london. its complete bullshit
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Guns
Dec 23, 2006 16:06:51 GMT -5
Post by Gil Alexander on Dec 23, 2006 16:06:51 GMT -5
You're absolutely right. However, I don't "turn my cheek to the evil man;" because 1. I don't believe in evil and 2. I don't believe it's right to hurt anyone at any time.
A question for you - what do you think about gun control? It's a different issue, but still slightly relevant.
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Guns
Dec 23, 2006 17:08:00 GMT -5
Post by Denithar on Dec 23, 2006 17:08:00 GMT -5
Coming from the same person who declared America had killed 6 million civilians in Iraq, I think I'll believe my sources before I'll believe yours Broky. And yes, the sanctity of life must be protected. Thus people who are threatening it must be eliminated. I'm sorry this makes you angry, and I realize that many Muslims are fine people, but all religions must come into the new age. Christianity, except in rare places, gives equality to both sexes. True Muslims however are not allowed that freedom. If they follow the Koran then they must put women below men. A 13 year old girl was arrested in Iran (I think it was Iran, but it might have been a different country) for having a baby with her brother. She is sentenced to be stoned.
And to Gilly:
What do you call rape? Enslavement? Murder? Or to put it a different way, how can there be a right if there is no wrong?
As for it not being right to hurt anyone at any time, would you not defend yourself? What if some guy is about to rape your girl and there is nobody else around but you?
I'm not well informed on the issue of gun control. I myself do not hunt, nor do I personally find guns "fun", so I don't keep up with that section of the news, or at least not very well. If a restriction on guns has enough chance of cutting back on crime or innocent death, then certainly I'm for it.
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Guns
Dec 23, 2006 20:14:12 GMT -5
Post by Gil Alexander on Dec 23, 2006 20:14:12 GMT -5
I believe in a wrong, den, just not in an evil. I believe in humanity; of varying levels of morality and intent in all of everyone's actions. As to your specific examples, I think that they are all completely uncalled for and wrong, but in no way evil. As a sidenote- The only way evil could manifest itself would be through the motives of our actions: for instance, like you said, murder only because it's wrong; wronging for wrong's sake. I don't believe this is possible because there is ALWAYS an underlying cause such as loneliness or insanity or childhood abuse or something. Well, I definitely wouldn't just stand there and watch, if that's what your implying. What would I do? Ideally, I guess I would try to get my girl away from the guy as fast as possible without harming either of them. Realistically, however ( ) I admit I would probably at least try to hurt the rapist, and I would feel like complete shit afterwards for hurting him (but also a certain degree of satisfaction). I'm not perfect, Den. Cool, that's what I support also.
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Guns
Dec 27, 2006 8:44:23 GMT -5
Post by Denithar on Dec 27, 2006 8:44:23 GMT -5
I see. You believe in Predestination. I disagree with that entire Christian theory, but many Christians would indeed agree with you. However, I believe that at all times we have the option of doing right and doing wrong. It is never predestined. I will never be forced to rape some girl because of something from my childhood. It would be a choice, and if I chose it, it would be an evil choice.
So you're saying that you in that scenario would be doing a wrong?
I suppose you don't support any war that America has entered then? Should we should have left Europe to the Nazis? Kuwait to Saddam Hussein?
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Guns
Dec 28, 2006 15:28:04 GMT -5
Post by Gil Alexander on Dec 28, 2006 15:28:04 GMT -5
Yes, I would, but not because i was saving my girl but in hurting the man.
Nope, I've never supported a US war. But that doesn't mean by any means that I would stay out and let such atrocity happen such as the Nazis. There are many, many different ways to solving political issues rather than fighting a war. I believe that there are always ways of using force other than through violence. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to run around with banners saying "F*** THE TROOPS" or anything.
In the end, wars only take lives and lead to more violence, and most of the time on bigger scales. Take the wars in the nineteenth century between France and Prussia and Austria; those wars led to World War 1, which led pretty directly to World War 2, which left the US and the USSR the sole remaining superpowers, starting the Cold War, which led to the Vietnam and Korean Wars, and so on and so on.
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