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Post by Denithar on Jul 19, 2006 23:42:48 GMT -5
I finally got to watch the new movie. I liked it a lot. But how can some of you guys vote for the Phantom? He's fascinating, intriguing, but he's also a cold blooded monster. Even if Raoul is a bit of a pretty boy, he is quite brave.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 20, 2006 10:24:09 GMT -5
*gasp* What do you expect from the Phantom?! He had been shuned for so long, without love or compassion, he didn't know what was right and wrong! He wasn't a monster - just misguided!
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Post by Froggy on Jul 20, 2006 11:03:22 GMT -5
Sorry, but I have to agree with Den on this. No matter how long I was cooped up and unloved, etc. I could never kill a man. Though I still also say that Raoul is a pretty boy no matter how brave he is. Lol, I didn't like either of them.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 20, 2006 11:08:18 GMT -5
Raoul IS a pretty boy - even if he is brave. And I still liked the Phantom more. So . . . to each their own. ;D
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Post by Denithar on Jul 20, 2006 12:10:51 GMT -5
*gasp* What do you expect from the Phantom?! He had been shuned for so long, without love or compassion, he didn't know what was right and wrong! He wasn't a monster - just misguided! On the contrary, I think he is not the ignorant savage that you make him out to be. He seemed quite brilliant to me. (But I have only watched it once.) Watching the world for a long time, I think he could learn of other things than power.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 20, 2006 13:23:29 GMT -5
He was brilliant - at what he knew. Almost his whole life, he knew only music and the Opera House. There lay his brilliance.
Killing Buquet may have been wrong (well, it probably did the girls at the Opera Populaire a world of good.) but he did it because he was threatened. Same with Raoul - he would have killed him because he was threatened, only in a different way.
Being alone for so long meant that he built up barriers around himself, and because of his upbringing at the circus before his Opera lonliness, he was shown that violence was the way to do things. Traumatic childhoods make the adult man a murderer.
Crap - I'm in a debate. I suck at debates.
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Post by Denithar on Jul 20, 2006 15:50:40 GMT -5
Life gave him a totally unfair chance at being a good/kind man. But if we excuse his actions because of his lack of knowledge, then we must also admit that he would make an abusive husband.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 20, 2006 15:53:04 GMT -5
Not to Christine. A little (OK, a lot) possessive and obsessive, yes - but not abusive.
. . .
Well, not to a wife that loved him back, at least. (I told you that I suck at debates)
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Post by Gil Alexander on Jul 20, 2006 17:35:31 GMT -5
The reason the Phantom wrote Don Juan was because of his frustration at the world and all the pain and emotion that he found he could only vent through art. But when Christine steps in, he finds a reason for to live; to become her angel of music. When teaching her and protecting her became the only thing to live for, he also became obsessed with her and tried to create her into someone as equally talented as himself but also as beautiful as her talents, which the Phantom lacked himself.
When things got in the way of the Phantom's plans, he simply didn't know how to deal with it. For instance, Buquet making fun of him and reconstructing the Phantom's image to the people of the opera as a creature that they shouldn't be scared of, but should be laughed at made the phantom extremely mad. Being shut up and having nothing to live for for such a long time warped the Phantom's emotions; he saw how people treated him - as a monster to be ridiculed, so when he tried to get rid of the 'ridiculed' part he just became a flat out monster. He knew that being ridiculed was wrong.
So finally, I don't think he would make a bad husband to her, because he did so many things good and bad to protect Christine, and to keep her out of harm's way. He'd be kind to Christine, but I doubt he'd be anything but malicious towards any other young, good-looking man that sets his eyes on Christine.
I know a lot of the reasons people can relate to the Phantom is because they'd been on the outside, ridiculed. Raoul was a member of the higher class and rich. I didn't like him as much as the Phantom because he wasn't developed at all. Raoul was this perfect, rich, beautiful, love-sore young man. I saw no flaws.
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Post by Denithar on Jul 21, 2006 13:05:48 GMT -5
Not to Christine. A little (OK, a lot) possessive and obsessive, yes - but not abusive. . . . Well, not to a wife that loved him back, at least. (I told you that I suck at debates) He would never be abusive. As long as she obeyed his every command like a slave. Idk, I wouldn't want that kind of love.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 21, 2006 13:21:30 GMT -5
No, she wouldn't have been his slave. And deep down, Christine loved him. She would have learned to love him had she stayed with him. And think about it - it only took one kiss froim her, one passionate kiss in which you could see her love, to free her. Why? Because he cared. Because he loved her.
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Post by Denithar on Jul 21, 2006 13:44:00 GMT -5
Well, from this point it's pretty much undebatable, because it's faith not facts. You have faith in the Phantom and I don't.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 21, 2006 13:45:52 GMT -5
That's true. *holds out hand* Agree to disagree?
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Post by Denithar on Jul 21, 2006 13:59:53 GMT -5
*shakes hand* Yep. I will admit, the phantom is SOOO cool. I kinda wanted him to win the swordfight.
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Post by AshVersion2 on Jul 21, 2006 14:03:19 GMT -5
Hehe, I would have laughed - big, strong Raoul, beaten by a man who hasn't seen the light of day for several years (if you get my meaning). ;D
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