Improving Our Art

[Chris]

I am the kind of person who is constantly giving up on my ideas because I can't portray them the way I like. I can't seem to set the right moods and tones, I can't describe as accurately as I'd like, my characters don't have any definitive traits, etc. I just have all these great ideas and I can't get them to work the way I want them to.

I think this is because I don't understand the fundamentals. All that stuff I'd learned in high school have just faded away from me from lack of practice. I don't remeber much of anything I've been taught; it is lost to me because I didn't put it into practice when I knew it.

Then I figured that maybe I'm not the only person who's got a problem with this. I'd bet that there are some of you who probably have difficulties in some area or another of writing. So I thought maybe we could make this thread, a sort of lesson thread, to rehash the basics of writing and language, and to learn advanced writing techniques, and together we can help each other take our craft higher than it's been before.

So here's what I propose: each week we choose a topic to cover, and we all pitch in, do a little research and share what we know in the thread, discuss the importance of the topic, how to put it to use in our own writing, and perhaps maybe take an exerpt from some of the writings here and examine how the piece does (or doesn't) use said topic in the writing.

Who's in?

[eakyra]

OOO OOO! I WANT TOO!

[Emily]

I'd love to. I may miss a few subjects, but when I'm free - Yep! ;D

[Chris]

Wonderful!

Well, if you have any suggestions for anything you'd like to cover first, shoot.

[eakyra]

Topic: Good Vs. Evil

How to make this seem origional.

[Chris]

Here's my take on it. I'm not that good at exposition, so I'm just gonna say it like I see it.

The problem with making such a theme seem original is that, no matter how you spin it, it's been done. According to wikipedia.org, "The conflict between good and evil is one of the most common conventional themes in literature, and is sometimes considered to be a universal part of the human condition." And that's the problem. It is a popular theme that has been used countless times before, and it will continue to be used, because it is "a universal part of the human condition". We know it, we understand it, we can relate to it, and as writers we use it in our writing because, like us, our readers will know, understand and relate to it, and because of that, they will enjoy it.

So how do we make it fresh, original? Well, my research fails me for the most part in this department, so I'm gonna wing it with my own ideas. And my own ideas tell me that if you mean that you are looking to write about good and evil in a context that has never been explored before, good luck with that. There have been writers since time immemorial, and I bet that a staggering majority of them have explored the concept of good vs evil before. Heck, the Bible, the end-all of the greatest best-sellers of all time, inarguably the most widely recognized text in the world, is basically the written authority for the morals, ethics and values with which we govern ourselves, the very book from which most of us have learned the differences between right and wrong, between 'good' and 'evil'. You'll be hard-pressed to find a truly original way from which this theme hasn't been explored.

I personally think that it is not the how to make the theme itself fresh, but your voice that will give you the originality and distinction that you want. It's been done before, yes, but have you done it before? That is truly what matters. When you write about good and evil, your conceptions, thoughts and beliefs about this theme will permeate into your writing, and through your words, your characters, your plot, we will see the thing that will make it a fresh take on a classic theme: you.

Now, before I get too hokey, there are still some things that you can actively do to make good and evil seem brand new. I think that if you can't find a new road to take, you might as well take the road less travelled, I.E. use a take on good and evil that is often overlooked. Wikipedia has given me some ideas in this respect. "In most traditional, anonymous literature, the lines between good and evil are clear, unequivocal, and intimately connected to the moral system of the culture that created each text or story." In short, most of the time good and evil are pretty black and white. To stir things up, you can mix those blacks and whites and turn things to shades of grey. In my opinion, it is more realistic and entertaining when the lines between right and wrong are blurred by some ambiguity. Try writing a story where your audience is kept guessing which side of that line a major character is, or where the normal concepts of good and evil become hazy and unsure.

There's also the "Heart of Darkness" or inner evil take on the good vs. evil theme, where the conflict takes place not between two different people or bodies, but is a struggle within one person, one character grappling internally with the concepts of right and wrong.

Another way of making old themes seem new is by flipping them around. Instead of writing from the perspective of good, why not make your protagonists evil? Wikipedia says that "... in most movies, stories and video games, the force of good always triumphs over evil." How's about you go against the grain and let the bad guys get the last laugh for once? Write of a world where all the mores and values are mirror images of ours, where lying, stealing and killing are celebrated, and where concepts like honesty, love and compassion are reviled. You can also go against the norm by flipping the usual norms of good and evil, or finding the theme in contexts where they aren't expected. You've heard of a good cop stopping the evil killer, but where is the story of the good killer stopping the evil cop? You can find evil in the power-hungry warlock or an assasin, but have you ever found it in a slug, or a tree, or in God?

Like I said, they aren't exactly new ideas, and have been done before in one form or another, but by just changing the perspectives or contexts or even the settings and characters where you find this theme, and most importantly, in conjuction with your own tone, style and voice, you can create something that is as original as you'd want it to be.

That's it for me; now it's your turn. For those of you who have your own insights, criticisms, issues, comments, questions or anything at all that will be useful for the topic at hand, as I'm sure you do, please, please don't hesistate to pitch in. You can even recommend someone's work (or even your own) that shows some usage of the topic at hand to give us a hands-on approach to understanding and learning through example.

Remember, we are trying to learn from and teach each other to improve our art, and we can only do so if everyone pitches in, so don't be afraid to speak up.

[eakyra]

Thats beautiful. I think we need more things like this in the guild. Bravo. You get exaulted!

I honestly am going to add something to this, but I just got home and I have been at work for 14 hours today so im really tired.

Tune in... soon.

[Chris]

Well, thanks for the praise. And I'm going to hold you to your word to post in future.

[Chris]

Well, while you're thinking of what to add to this week's topic, I'd like it if we all read Joey's Destiny by sorceressofshadow. It demonstrates the "Heart of Darkness" take on Good vs. Evil, a very good take because it's a little more challenging and subtle to write and a little more engaging to the advanced reader. You can find it in the Fiction Stories section.

Then we can maybe discuss just how sorceressofshadow uses this theme in the story, and how effective it was, and just what was done well and what wasn't. Let's hold off on discussion until Wednesday, though, in case anyone has anything of their own to share about the theme itself, and to give everyone some time to read it.

[eakyra]

Sounds like a good idea. And because I havnt gotten anywhere near to posting about ^ then I dont know if I will.

And if you want to post something after you have already posted, edit your last post to incorporate what you want to say now. Double posting is frowned apon so to speak.

[Chris]

Well, I'll try to avoid that in future, and thank you for the warning.

I'll assume that those of you who really are interested in improving your art have read sorceressofshadow's Joey's Destiny (The Making of Raphael) by now. I.E. None of you. lol. But that's ok, I'm sure it's just slipped your minds, or you're too busy, or whatever. It happens. Here's a link to the story: ywg2.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=fiction&action=display&thread=1160066040

In the story, sorceressofshadow uses the inner evil take on the Good vs Evil theme, where Joey, a sorcerer who uses his magic for good, finds a bracelet and puts it on, only to discover that it's poisoning him with evil, and he can't take it off. He then faces the internal conflict of trying to overcome the evil thoughts that start to cloud his mind, but in the end his struggles are in vain, and the evil slowly overcomes him, transforming him from the good Joey to the evil Raphael.

I believe that this theme was not developed as well as it could have been in the story. The author uses a slowly, constantly increasing anger to show the evil overcoming Joey, his anger escalating the more the bracelet influences him. I think this method worked reasonably well, and is a good idea in theory, but in my opinion this method was hindered by a few principles.

Firstly: The way Joey becomes increasingly angry the longer he is under the bracelet's influence, it seems to me that the author believes that anger itself is an emotional manifestation of evil. In my opinion, this is not so, because an emotion itself isn't good or bad, even those considered to be the Seven Deadly sins. Is it wrong or evil to feel lust if it is for your partner? Is it wrong to feel pride if it is for your child, your parent, your sibling? Is it wrong feel wrath if it is for the Devil? I certainly believe it is possible to feel almost anything in a justifiable, non-evil way, even hate.

So when is an emotion evil? Well, I think it becomes evil or wrong when you feel said emotion for selfish or malevolent reason, like if you're proud of your work because it beat out someone elses, or if you hate your coworker because he/she got the promotion you wanted. I think it is the rationale behind the emotion that truly decides whether it is good or evil.

That raises the question: if Joey did these things and felt these things because of the bracelet's influence, can it be said that the things he does and feels are truly evil? I say we'd need more information from the author as to what exactly the bracelet does. Does it put evil into the good person, or does it unlock evil that was already there? But if I have to go on what I have read already, I'd say yes. As long as the intent behind the thought or action is selfish or malevolent, it is evil. If the bracelet unlocks an evil inside the wearer and forces that person to act upon it, it is still evil because that person wants to do it, and it doesn't matter that some outside influence is making him. If the bracelet puts the evil inside the person, that makes it a little more ambiguous, but I would still say that the intent to do harm for malevolent reasons is there, and it is therefore evil.

Secondly: Joey's internal struggle against the evil of the bracelet seems less a battle of principles than it is a battle of actions. Like I said, it's not what you do that makes it evil, but why you do it. The author emphasizes the wrong aspect of the struggle, and in the story Joey fights against the compulsion to do bad things, when instead the inner evil theme should not be about the compulsion to do these bad things, but a fight against the compulsion to LIKE doing them. I'll admit that sorceressofshadow does end up making Joey's transformation complete by making Raphael enjoy using his powers to destroy and harm, but the struggle itself contains no elements of battling against the DESIRE to do these things, but the inexplicable need to do them.

Aside from these two issues, though, it is clear to see that the transformation does indeed occur, and by killing Jimmy the good Joey completes his transformation from the guy at the beginning of the story who uses his powers for the benefit of others, to the new Joey (Raphael) at the end who kills Jimmy because he's becoming bothersome in his pleas to have the old Joey back.

Ok. So, if you are interested in sharing any comments, in saying whether you concur or disagree with the points that I've brought up or if you have an entirely different viewpoint or insight to share, don't hesistate. Remember what I said before: the aim is to learn and teach each other what we know, and that won't work if this thread turns out to be just about me blathering on about what I think. Just share whatsoever opinions you have, no matter how trivial they may seem, and I assure you we'll all be better off for it.

[Denithar]

I thought the evil overcoming him was too blunt. I felt like it would have been more interesting and fascinating if it had been more subtle. The trouble that I found with the story is that it tries so hard to be a moral teaching story, and yet you never quite figure out what the moral is. Or maybe I just read it wrong.

I must agree with you on evil being subjective to the circumstances. I can't think of any act that would be evil in all circumstances, nor can I think of one that would be good in all.

You say, well rape is always bad. But the part about rape that is bad is that it is forced, it's not the sex that is bad. So is force always wrong? No, again, sometimes force is necessary to save someone.

So then we arrive at the question of truth and morals. What code do we live by then? I am a Christian, and I live as Christ taught. The trouble is, not all Christians agree. So where do we find ultimate morality?

I think this is a good idea and I hope we can get more people to join.

[Chris]

I agree with you about that subtlety point, especially considering the approach the author takes on the theme. You'd figure that a mental, internal struggle would be about the subtle nuances in the changes of the character's personality.

However, I disagree with you about the intent to teach a moral. Most of the time when a story tries to teach or reinforce a moral to the reader, it is illustrated through a character, in that that character learns a lesson with tools like poetic justice or irony. In a moral story, a character normally makes a mistake, and learns from it. Here, the only mistake Joey makes is to put on a bracelet he found on the beach, and there are no strong moral implications there. And even if there are, the story doesn't focus on the fact that it was because of the bracelet that he turns evil, but the actual turning evil itself.

Also, it's been a week, so it's about time to start thinking of a new topic to discuss.

EDIT: It's Monday, people. Don't be shy, go ahead and suggest something. Anything. Please.

[eakyra]

Believe in me how much I want too. But since my comp is broken the only time I have to get online is at work... and that is very precious few minutes.

I wish I had more time.

[Denithar]

The hero: why is he almost always dumber than the bad guy? Why does he always win by luck/outside reason, and the bad guy gets his power largely from himself.