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Post by johnsapphire on Oct 23, 2006 18:04:09 GMT -5
I shall tell everyone now that I detest you American republicans. War on Terrorism my posterior! And the war in Iraq has such justification, seeing as there were so many WMDs...
A few political points:
Stem-Cell Research is one of the most promising fields of new science. And you're making it illegal.
It's a woman's right to choose; the first trimester of pregnancy bears NOT a human, but a mass of tissue with NO nervous system)
No president graduating from Yale with a C AVERAGE should be allowed in the white house. You americans disgust me.
Gay Marriage, according to your constitution, is a 'civil right' garunteed by the ninth amendment. Take an example from your mother, America. BOW TO THE QUEEN. Legalize Gay Marriage.
'In God we trust' is an insult. Closer to the truth would be 'In God your founding fathers trusted,' as now there are many atheists in your country (2%!).
Organized religion is becoming a global threat. Since martyrdom garuntees the martyr an express ride to paradise (in Islam) and requires violence toward others of or promoting other faiths (in Christianity), neither is good. Or moral. Or peaceful.
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Post by Angie on Oct 23, 2006 18:11:16 GMT -5
One question: why the heck is this in the poetry section?
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Post by eakyra on Oct 23, 2006 20:51:30 GMT -5
I have to agree John. Lets move this over to the Debate section.
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Post by johnsapphire on Oct 23, 2006 21:03:43 GMT -5
Because this forum is visited more, silly!
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Post by eakyra on Oct 23, 2006 22:28:37 GMT -5
Thats true...
But we have to be considerate. ;D
I agree with you on everything except the Pro-choice. My feelings grow strongly in the other direction.
What is green?
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Post by Denithar on Oct 24, 2006 6:30:59 GMT -5
And I shall tell you proudly that I am an American Republican, and a Christian. However, I do not detest any broad group, as I find such thinking narrow and promoting of bigotry.
It's another technology that can be used for good or ill. I do not have enough knowledge of this topic to debate it, nor do I even have a secure opinion on it.
It's a woman's right to choose if she wants to have sex. If she is not ready to take care of a another life then she should abstain. I realize this is so unfair as men do not bear the child, but life is not fair. Killing a human is even less fair or just.
He was certainly better than the opponents I saw.
Marriage is between a man and a woman. I don't give a hoot what people do in private. But the majority of the voting public believes that the sacred rite of marriate is between opposite genders.
Regardless of Atheist's dislike for the quote, we will fight for it to stay to the end.
How does Christianity promote violence? Don't give me some event in history past. How is it promoting violence now?
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Post by johnsapphire on Oct 24, 2006 16:58:24 GMT -5
The bible clearly says: "If your brother, the son of your mother, or your son, or your daugher, or the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, entices you secretly saying "Let us go and serve other gods," you shall not listen to him or yeild to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him...but you shall kill him. You shall stone him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. You shall stone him to death with stones, because he sought to draw you away from the LORD your God."
Sounds pretty violent to me. Furthermore:
"The Problem is that Christians like yourself are not principally concerned about teen pregnancy and the spread of disease. That is, you are not worried about suffering caused by sex; you are worried about sex. As if this fact needed further corroboration, Reginald Finger, an Evangelical member of the CDC's Advisory Commmittee on IMmunization Practices, recently announed that he would consider opposing an HIV vaccine--thereby condemning millions of men and women to die unnecessarily from AIDS each year--because such a vaccine would encourage premarital sex by making it less risky. This is one of many points on which your religiouis beliefs become genuinely lethal."
--Sam Harris, Letter to a Christian Nation
Assuming this to be the extent of Christianity's wrathful destruction, I would have a very weak case. But it is not, and my case is all but weak.
There has been fighting in the recent past and there is conflict now in various regions of the world BECAUSE of religion:
The Balkans (Catholic Crotians vs. Orthodox Serbians), Northern Ireland (Catholics vs. Protestants), Sudan (Christians and animists vs. Muslims [this civil war is distinct from the genocide that is currently occurring in the Darfur region of Sudan]), Ethiopia and Eritrea (Christians vs. Muslims), Ivory Coast (Christians vs. Muslims), Philippines (Christians vs. Muslims), and the Caucusus (Catholic and Orthodox Armenians vs. Muslim Azerbaijanis, et al).
The conflicts listed above are lethal, they are terrible, they are vulgar. They are rooted ENTIRELY in religion.
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Duskglimmer
Rank 8 (Getting Moldy!)
Human Boomerang
McKay: Have you seen a guy? He looks like you, but with messy hair. I think I lost him somewhere...
Posts: 1,567
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Post by Duskglimmer on Oct 24, 2006 17:36:54 GMT -5
Let's just say that I disagree with everything in the original post of this thread.
However, since I know I'm not going to win on any of the religious issues since we have completely different mind sets in that matter and we're both convinced that they're correct...
I think I'll tackle the "Why elect someone who graduated with a C average?" question.
Why not? Since when does a person's grades tell you 1) how they'll be as a leader and 2) what kind of person they actually are. Are we to condemn anyone that doesn't have a 4.0?
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Post by Denithar on Oct 24, 2006 22:38:16 GMT -5
The example you are using is from the Old Testament. Now that Christ has died and risen for us we do not need to follow the strict rules of ancient times.
Your second argument concerning Christians and teen pregnancy assumes that Christians all agree, which is far from the truth. There are bad examples from any belief system.
As for your supposed examples of religious conflict, I grant you some are valid, some I don't know enough to discuss, but the one I know must about, being that I am Irish, is in Northern Ireland. And you are almost totally wrong. It is between Unionist/Loyalists and Nationalist/Republicans. Religion plays a small part. (Religion plays a part in EVERYTHING humans do. And I mean this including your religion of atheism/post modernism. Tell me if I've got your beliefs wrong.) So you are either speaking fallaciously, or not researching your facts before you state them.
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Post by eakyra on Oct 24, 2006 23:22:19 GMT -5
I cant believe these two are debating.
Please tell me what GREEN IS!
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Post by SciFiGuy88 on Oct 24, 2006 23:46:45 GMT -5
I disagree with a whole lot of the issues you have laid out here. Especially the one on abortion. I am a strong Catholic/Christian and I believe all of God's children are to be treated as such. Not some "mass of tissue." You were once a "mass of tissue" just like those who have been murdered. It's possible, in many cases, that this "mass of tissue" has already been given a name long before first light. So is this name meaningless? Or is it just something to put on a gravestone so the baby doesnt just have a blank slab in the ground as it's only meaning it ever had in the world (of course I'm speaking metaphorically, aborted babies probably do not get graves)?
And your views on "In God we Trust," i strongly believe in keeping this on currency and other things. This country was founded on Christianity and it has been strongly Christian willed for centuries. The 2% athiest population has already made an effort to extract those very words from our currency, halt the broadcast of christian radio, remove the 10 commandments, and most of all, which disgusts me most because of it's almost laughable ridiculousness, is remove 'God' from the phrase "God bless you."
Next, I agree with Denithar about the gay marriage issue, nuff said there.
Bush's grades have nothing to do with his leadership like Dusk said. Take US Grant for example. he was an amazing general. without him, there was no way the union could have defeated the confederate forces. however, his presidency was a flop. people have expertise in different areas and some of these areas may not add up the way one expects. so school wasnt bush's thing, maybe politics is? politics wasnt for grant but commanding an army was.
stem cell research is not for us to tamper with. sure, it is a huge science breakthrough but think for one moment....Are we playing God? Are we saying that we do not need God anymore? If we are, then let's all say "Bye bye, God, we're ok now, thanks for everything." We'll see how long we last without him.
I'm sorry if I seemed a little harsh on some of my opinions but I am very strong willed about them. What I believe in, I believe in very strongly and I cannot help but to defend what I believe. I'm sure you were doing the same when you stated your opinions and I respect that. Thank you for listening.
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Post by Denithar on Oct 24, 2006 23:47:46 GMT -5
It's a minority party. I'm actually surprised you don't know of them, I could be wrong but I think green is fairly literal to their feelings.
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Post by Gil Alexander on Oct 25, 2006 6:48:26 GMT -5
This is your concept of marriage; other people's concepts differ enormously from your own. Why should you care if they marry and get the benefits from it? It's like what John said; it's taking away their equal rights. It's also not like getting married is going to harm anybody; why not just let it be? Your reasoning stems from a religious background, and, while America was founded on Christianity, many, many Christians are pro-gay marriage nowadays.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2006 14:40:27 GMT -5
i have a fair few gay friends and I have no problem at all with them. why should they be condemned by god and not allowed to get married?
I will agree that Bush was a better candidate than the others who were running, but it doesn't mean I like him all that much.
All scientific fields should be explored. If we are going down the god route, god gave man the ability to make this kind of discovery. we should use it.
Abortion should be legal. Should the victim of rape be forced to give birth to a child that will remind her of the rape for the rest of her life. should she not be allowed to move on?
And I have no problem with religion. Well I suppose I have a problem with satanists but lets not go down that road. It's free choice once again. You should be allowed to choose. And I see no point in removing religion from life.
And as for party, I'm lib dem, verging more on labour side
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Post by Denithar on Oct 25, 2006 19:00:30 GMT -5
It is not "my" concept of marriage. It is the majority of America's concept of marriage. There are many examples of things that a minority group would like to be legal, but because they are a minority it won't happen. There are different drinking ages, speed limits, marriage ages, etc. When the majority of America want to legalize gay marriage, fine. But if the majority consider it to between a man and a woman then that is law.
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